the culture wars...

[flea]

In addition to their ongoing anti-feminist articles about young women wanting to stay home with children, the New York Times also has had repeated articles about clashes between people with children and people without children. Today's instalment is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/09/national/09bakery.html?8hpib

My response is well-covered by Bitch, PhD in this essay (http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/2005/04/moms-at-work-over-there.html) and can be summed up this way: children are part of society. Yes, parents should encourage them to be well-behaved in public, and should not take one-year-olds to Michelin 3-star restaurants. But a casual neighborhood cafe at brunch time or early evening? Give me a break.

Comments

[veejane.livejournal.com]

1) What is WITH the Times being all surface-coverage culture-war? I mean, if you're gonna do culture-war, be in-depth, fa chrissake, You are the Times! Give us continued reason not to think you're a steaming pile of morons!

2) My general sense is, one forgives a lot more out of someone who is trying than someone who isn't. A parent who is really working on (and failing at) controlling a toddler gets a lot more tolerance from the general public than a parent who is just not trying at all.

Still and all -- the nonverbal signals may be hard to find, on whether a place is kid-friendly or not. I would think a bakery would be hugely kid-friendly, what with the low displays of goodies and all. (Your average Starbucks, everything is designed for tall people.) And if you want to signal that you want an adult clientele, how to do that without coming across as pissy and judgemental?

[casperflea.livejournal.com]

Decor, lighting, prices, the type of food you provide. I stopped taking my daughter to the great Thai Food place when she got to the toddler stage, because it's dimly lit, the waiters are formally dressed, the carpet and upholstery is dark and elegant. It's not particlarly expensive (and they do have take-out) but it's signaling, "This is not a place to bring a kid who can't be relied on to stay in a chair." Elmo's, on the other hand, has wood floors, bright sun, vinyl booths, a kid's menu, and crayons, so it's saying, "As long as your child will not bite the server, come on in." It still has good food, isn't a chain kiddie restaurant. And you know what? I rarely see outrageous child behavior there.

[veejane.livejournal.com]

Elmo's!!

I thought the crayons were for the grownups.

[cashmerepett.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY. Christopher and I took Owen to one of our favorite tiny Italian bistros. It's casual and I see kids in there all the time. But when Owen wasn't being really cooperative after we had ordered and I saw a nicely dressed couple sit next to us and order $9 glasses of whiskey, I figured they might not want their fairly expensive dinner disrupted and we asked the waitress to box our entrees to go.

Owen wasn't screaming or crying, but I could tell by his fidgets that he wouldn't last through dinner. I made a judgement call and we left. I try to pick up on these cues early before there is a problem and be considerate of other customers.